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	<title>Comments on: Whites Get Better Pain Control In The ED??</title>
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	<link>http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/whites-get-better-pain-control-in-the-ed/</link>
	<description>Random thoughts about US Healthcare</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 22:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: tagaAmerica.com » Whites Get Better Pain Control In The ED?? « WhiteCoat Rants</title>
		<link>http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/whites-get-better-pain-control-in-the-ed/#comment-1910</link>
		<dc:creator>tagaAmerica.com » Whites Get Better Pain Control In The ED?? « WhiteCoat Rants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 09:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Whites Get Better Pain Control In The ED?? « WhiteCoat Rants [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Whites Get Better Pain Control In The ED?? « WhiteCoat Rants [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dx:Ddx</title>
		<link>http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/whites-get-better-pain-control-in-the-ed/#comment-1907</link>
		<dc:creator>Dx:Ddx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 07:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/whites-get-better-pain-control-in-the-ed/#comment-1907</guid>
		<description>The study irritated me, to think I might care for people of color differently. But then, as all population studies are, they describe population behavior, not individual behavior. Your(WC) reaction was like mine, to feel accused, when the data are not acusing you(or me), but our profession. So, accept the data and keep doing the best job you can. Hey, even better, look at your own data. You could probably get the hospital to run a printout on Rx's and race over the last few years. I am always, no sometimes, surprised when I get my own numbers.
The MOST interesting trend I found from the paper was the steady upward climb of narcotics prescribed. Does that mean that doctors 10 years ago were REALLY hard asses? At least they were equally racially biased hard asses back then as we are now...
Regardless, racial disparity in treatment does exist and just like medical expenses are disproportionally distributed( ie 80% of expenses for &#60;20% of people) so too I would assume racist prescribing occurs.
Avoid painting with too broad a brush. But still paint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The study irritated me, to think I might care for people of color differently. But then, as all population studies are, they describe population behavior, not individual behavior. Your(WC) reaction was like mine, to feel accused, when the data are not acusing you(or me), but our profession. So, accept the data and keep doing the best job you can. Hey, even better, look at your own data. You could probably get the hospital to run a printout on Rx&#8217;s and race over the last few years. I am always, no sometimes, surprised when I get my own numbers.<br />
The MOST interesting trend I found from the paper was the steady upward climb of narcotics prescribed. Does that mean that doctors 10 years ago were REALLY hard asses? At least they were equally racially biased hard asses back then as we are now&#8230;<br />
Regardless, racial disparity in treatment does exist and just like medical expenses are disproportionally distributed( ie 80% of expenses for &lt;20% of people) so too I would assume racist prescribing occurs.<br />
Avoid painting with too broad a brush. But still paint.</p>
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		<title>By: PM, SN</title>
		<link>http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/whites-get-better-pain-control-in-the-ed/#comment-1904</link>
		<dc:creator>PM, SN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 04:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/whites-get-better-pain-control-in-the-ed/#comment-1904</guid>
		<description>Looks like for-profit healthcare and for-profit journalism share some of the same failings, eh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like for-profit healthcare and for-profit journalism share some of the same failings, eh?</p>
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		<title>By: LC</title>
		<link>http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/whites-get-better-pain-control-in-the-ed/#comment-1894</link>
		<dc:creator>LC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 20:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/whites-get-better-pain-control-in-the-ed/#comment-1894</guid>
		<description>We just experienced one of the worst nights of our lives when My BF went to an emergency room last night after suffering for over  an hour with  severe, excruciating kidney stone pain.  He has had these rarely and the last one was about 7 years ago.  Instead of getting treated we were interrogated. I was completely unprepared for how we were treated.  The truth is that we are honest people who do not use drugs.  We were caught unexpected by an emergency and were desperate for relief, that as a last resort, we went to the ER.  We are hispanic and do not have insurance though we are hardworking homeowners with impeccable credit.  It's not an exaggeration that we were treated like we were lying from the start. I feel traumatized by this whole ordeal. After connecting the dots as to what they were implying, I understand the Dr concerns and perspective and I know they must see this all the time that justifies their perspective. We are one of the REAL cases and they made it HELL that I can not express in words.  We really can't defend ourselves against the preconceived certainty that's in their minds.

&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;
I hope that you do not think all EDs are like this, and if you really were treated this way, you need to talk to an administrator at the hospital. If it ever happens again, ask to talk to an administrator while you're still there. &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We just experienced one of the worst nights of our lives when My BF went to an emergency room last night after suffering for over  an hour with  severe, excruciating kidney stone pain.  He has had these rarely and the last one was about 7 years ago.  Instead of getting treated we were interrogated. I was completely unprepared for how we were treated.  The truth is that we are honest people who do not use drugs.  We were caught unexpected by an emergency and were desperate for relief, that as a last resort, we went to the ER.  We are hispanic and do not have insurance though we are hardworking homeowners with impeccable credit.  It&#8217;s not an exaggeration that we were treated like we were lying from the start. I feel traumatized by this whole ordeal. After connecting the dots as to what they were implying, I understand the Dr concerns and perspective and I know they must see this all the time that justifies their perspective. We are one of the REAL cases and they made it HELL that I can not express in words.  We really can&#8217;t defend ourselves against the preconceived certainty that&#8217;s in their minds.</p>
<p><em><strong><br />
I hope that you do not think all EDs are like this, and if you really were treated this way, you need to talk to an administrator at the hospital. If it ever happens again, ask to talk to an administrator while you&#8217;re still there. </strong></em></p>
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		<title>By: Sue</title>
		<link>http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/whites-get-better-pain-control-in-the-ed/#comment-1807</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 07:06:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/whites-get-better-pain-control-in-the-ed/#comment-1807</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with what Roger said.  When a pt of any race comes in and says, "Doc, it hurts..." I start by asking where, how long, what the quality of the pain is, etc.  Asking about the features of the pain and the associated symptoms is pounded into us from the first year of medical school.  When a patient of any race says, "I don't know, it just hurts!"  many of us (myself included) get a little frustrated.  It's not necessarily that we then assume that the patient is faking it, but rather that we have just lost a powerful tool in formulating our differential diagnosis and planning our diagnositic and theraputic interventions.  (For example, abdominal pain could be caused by dozens of different etiologies.  If a patient can explain where it hurts, what the pattern is, etc, I can narrow it down to a few possibilities.  I can then decide what tests to order to distinguish among those possibities, as well as what pain medications may be most effective.) I have no idea if members of one race or ethnic group better articulate their pain and symptoms (never noticed) but it certainly appears to me that those who do not communicate well do not get the same level of medical care as those who do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with what Roger said.  When a pt of any race comes in and says, &#8220;Doc, it hurts&#8230;&#8221; I start by asking where, how long, what the quality of the pain is, etc.  Asking about the features of the pain and the associated symptoms is pounded into us from the first year of medical school.  When a patient of any race says, &#8220;I don&#8217;t know, it just hurts!&#8221;  many of us (myself included) get a little frustrated.  It&#8217;s not necessarily that we then assume that the patient is faking it, but rather that we have just lost a powerful tool in formulating our differential diagnosis and planning our diagnositic and theraputic interventions.  (For example, abdominal pain could be caused by dozens of different etiologies.  If a patient can explain where it hurts, what the pattern is, etc, I can narrow it down to a few possibilities.  I can then decide what tests to order to distinguish among those possibities, as well as what pain medications may be most effective.) I have no idea if members of one race or ethnic group better articulate their pain and symptoms (never noticed) but it certainly appears to me that those who do not communicate well do not get the same level of medical care as those who do.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/whites-get-better-pain-control-in-the-ed/#comment-1800</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 03:32:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/whites-get-better-pain-control-in-the-ed/#comment-1800</guid>
		<description>I can understand that, "Doc, it hurts" transcends most levels of education/intelligence. However, if a person is able to articulate where it hurts, when it started,levels of pain,activities that make it worse and what measures were taken prior to the ED visit, they will stand a better chance of receiving pain medication than the person who only says "It just hurts, give me something". I know, big run on sentence.

I worked in an auto repair facility, so I will use this analogy. Two people bring their cars in for running problems. One can outline when the issue happens by telling me at what speed, engine temp, how long it needs to be driven and when the issue started.
The other person only tells me, it runs funny, put it on the computer.

Guess which is most likely to have the better outcome? Barring an obvious medical issue like a broken limb, I would have to believe that the dr. is going dispense meds based on observation and the patient's ability to describe the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can understand that, &#8220;Doc, it hurts&#8221; transcends most levels of education/intelligence. However, if a person is able to articulate where it hurts, when it started,levels of pain,activities that make it worse and what measures were taken prior to the ED visit, they will stand a better chance of receiving pain medication than the person who only says &#8220;It just hurts, give me something&#8221;. I know, big run on sentence.</p>
<p>I worked in an auto repair facility, so I will use this analogy. Two people bring their cars in for running problems. One can outline when the issue happens by telling me at what speed, engine temp, how long it needs to be driven and when the issue started.<br />
The other person only tells me, it runs funny, put it on the computer.</p>
<p>Guess which is most likely to have the better outcome? Barring an obvious medical issue like a broken limb, I would have to believe that the dr. is going dispense meds based on observation and the patient&#8217;s ability to describe the issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/whites-get-better-pain-control-in-the-ed/#comment-1792</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:33:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/whites-get-better-pain-control-in-the-ed/#comment-1792</guid>
		<description>I tend to agree that if studies like this make perpetuate these feelings, the researchers have made the practice of medicine worse, not better. And I am with you 100% with respect to what I guess you could call the sluttiness of the study, and I don't see the issue as bigotry per se.  But my own experience working in emergency rooms (FWIW) is that the fine folks there are no more immune to subconscious and unarticulated social attitudes than any other service industry.  Such beliefs might include mildly racist beliefs and the notion that old ladies are sweet.  That's why it wouldn't surprise me to learn (from a more reputable source than this study) that some discrepancies in narcotic prescriptions break along racial lines.   

(On a side note, the number of cases where this might happen is almost surely very small -- absent malpractice, any patient for whom a drug is clearly indicated is going to get it in the ER.  But it is easy for me to see how race might creep subconsciously into the mind decision of some doctor at 2:00 AM in, say, an ER downtown Oakland or Saint Louis, who is treating a patient with for whom narcotics are only marginally indicated.  And it only takes a few deviants to create a "trend" in the whole.  That's all I am really saying.)

Again, I really don't see the issue as bigotry or conscious racism.  But can't you imagine a few tired doctors across the country reaching hasty conclusions?  It's hard for me not to . . . 

Finnally, thanks for the awesome blog.  It is one the select few for which I have an RSS feed to my email.  I look forward to more of your good work in '08.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tend to agree that if studies like this make perpetuate these feelings, the researchers have made the practice of medicine worse, not better. And I am with you 100% with respect to what I guess you could call the sluttiness of the study, and I don&#8217;t see the issue as bigotry per se.  But my own experience working in emergency rooms (FWIW) is that the fine folks there are no more immune to subconscious and unarticulated social attitudes than any other service industry.  Such beliefs might include mildly racist beliefs and the notion that old ladies are sweet.  That&#8217;s why it wouldn&#8217;t surprise me to learn (from a more reputable source than this study) that some discrepancies in narcotic prescriptions break along racial lines.   </p>
<p>(On a side note, the number of cases where this might happen is almost surely very small &#8212; absent malpractice, any patient for whom a drug is clearly indicated is going to get it in the ER.  But it is easy for me to see how race might creep subconsciously into the mind decision of some doctor at 2:00 AM in, say, an ER downtown Oakland or Saint Louis, who is treating a patient with for whom narcotics are only marginally indicated.  And it only takes a few deviants to create a &#8220;trend&#8221; in the whole.  That&#8217;s all I am really saying.)</p>
<p>Again, I really don&#8217;t see the issue as bigotry or conscious racism.  But can&#8217;t you imagine a few tired doctors across the country reaching hasty conclusions?  It&#8217;s hard for me not to . . . </p>
<p>Finnally, thanks for the awesome blog.  It is one the select few for which I have an RSS feed to my email.  I look forward to more of your good work in &#8216;08.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/whites-get-better-pain-control-in-the-ed/#comment-1776</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 04:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/whites-get-better-pain-control-in-the-ed/#comment-1776</guid>
		<description>Hmmm . . . Which part of the phrase "Doc, it hurts!" is the one you learn in higher education?

I'm not sure I can buy into the education theory.

More likely is that blacks receive fewer narcotics because, on average, American whites think blacks are more likely to be criminals, and because, on average, American ER doctors are American whites.  That's unfortunate (for many reasons) but that's the state of affairs right now.  

I am very irritated with the study for many of the reasons you described.  It reeks of a sensationalized tenure stunt.  But that doesn't necessarily mean the whole study is flawed.

I mean, wouldn't you be even more surprised if a study were released that said blacks and whites are prescribed narcotics identically?  I would . . . 

No hard feelings here, by the way.  I think there are far more useful places for those researchers to have put their time and energy (e.g., pharmaceutical companies role in research/abuse of ER resources by frequent fliers/heath care access in rural areas, etc.) and I am irritated that news coverage of this rather trivial issue is distracting people from the much more important problems facing American health care.  

But I also think that --  all other factors being equal -- ER docs are less likely to give narcs to a black man than a white one.

&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;I'm not sure what makes you think this. If studies like this perpetuate these feelings, then these researchers have made the practice of medicine worse, not better, with their paper. I have to reiterate that I don't see bigotry in the ED, and I've worked in a lot of EDs. FWIW. - WC&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm . . . Which part of the phrase &#8220;Doc, it hurts!&#8221; is the one you learn in higher education?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I can buy into the education theory.</p>
<p>More likely is that blacks receive fewer narcotics because, on average, American whites think blacks are more likely to be criminals, and because, on average, American ER doctors are American whites.  That&#8217;s unfortunate (for many reasons) but that&#8217;s the state of affairs right now.  </p>
<p>I am very irritated with the study for many of the reasons you described.  It reeks of a sensationalized tenure stunt.  But that doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean the whole study is flawed.</p>
<p>I mean, wouldn&#8217;t you be even more surprised if a study were released that said blacks and whites are prescribed narcotics identically?  I would . . . </p>
<p>No hard feelings here, by the way.  I think there are far more useful places for those researchers to have put their time and energy (e.g., pharmaceutical companies role in research/abuse of ER resources by frequent fliers/heath care access in rural areas, etc.) and I am irritated that news coverage of this rather trivial issue is distracting people from the much more important problems facing American health care.  </p>
<p>But I also think that &#8212;  all other factors being equal &#8212; ER docs are less likely to give narcs to a black man than a white one.</p>
<p><em><strong>I&#8217;m not sure what makes you think this. If studies like this perpetuate these feelings, then these researchers have made the practice of medicine worse, not better, with their paper. I have to reiterate that I don&#8217;t see bigotry in the ED, and I&#8217;ve worked in a lot of EDs. FWIW. - WC</strong></em></p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/whites-get-better-pain-control-in-the-ed/#comment-1770</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 00:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I am not a medical person, but I have read previous studies about pain management disparities. One comes to mind that may apply. It was theorized that due to an average higher level of education in whites, a white person can better articulate their condition. It would seem to track with older white males receiving more pain meds. Not meant to be a racist thing, just an observation.

&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;
If proven, this could be another one in a plethora of confounding factors that make the authors conclusions of bigotry a bunch of hogwash. -WC&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not a medical person, but I have read previous studies about pain management disparities. One comes to mind that may apply. It was theorized that due to an average higher level of education in whites, a white person can better articulate their condition. It would seem to track with older white males receiving more pain meds. Not meant to be a racist thing, just an observation.</p>
<p><em><strong><br />
If proven, this could be another one in a plethora of confounding factors that make the authors conclusions of bigotry a bunch of hogwash. -WC</strong></em></p>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 00:02:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...]  Whites Get Better Pain Control In The ED?? Look out, Scalpel. Now &#8220;researchers&#8221; are throwing fuel on the pain control debate. Today&#8217;s JAMA has a [&#8230;] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  Whites Get Better Pain Control In The ED?? Look out, Scalpel. Now &#8220;researchers&#8221; are throwing fuel on the pain control debate. Today&#8217;s JAMA has a [&#8230;] [...]</p>
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