Where US Priorities Lie
Posted by WhiteCoat on September 11, 2008
A recent census report (note: file is 2 MB in size) shows a lot about the priorities in the US.
In every case, women earned less than men in the same professions.
Median earnings in 2007 played out as follows:
“Legal occupations” earned the most of any occupation with median income of $105,000
Health care professionals were second with median income of $100,000
Management and computer occupations were next – each with median incomes of $72,000
Education, training, and library related occupations were lower on the list with median income of $51,000.
Farming/fishing/forestry was second lowest on the list with median income of $23,000
Dead last was food preparation and serving with median income of $21,700.
Just in case you wanted to know, the 2008 federal poverty level for a family of 4 in the US was $21,200.
Sad.
Kate said
Gee, we could equalize that really fast if those folks in the upper echelons would be willing to pay $16 for a Happy Meal.
SeaSpray said
I didn’t realize there was still unequal pay for the same job. I thought it was illegal?
Braden said
It can at least partially be explained by the amount of training involved and the difficulty in replacing some at the higher end of the spectrum. My brother was a school teacher until this last year when he got fed up with the increasingly shocking behavior of America’s unparented youth and the low pay of teachers. And there were dozens of potential teachers standing in line to take his place, so there was no motivation by the district to try to keep him.
On the other hand, managers, doctors, nurses, computer programmers and the like are more difficult to replace so there is motivation to keep them. I dare any fast food worker to say to their boss “unless you give me extra vacation and a 5000 dollar raise, I’m leaving.” They will probably get help out the door by means of the manager’s shoes. Moral of the story? I suppose it can be summed up in the words of one of the greatest minds of our times: “You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”
As for the gender gap, I don’t know the details about how they come up with that figure, so I can’t say too much on it. If a manager is paying a woman less money to carry the same responsibilities, then that is just plain wrong, but I suspect that even if common decency does not motivate one to equalize pay amongst their employees, the threat of lawsuits will, so I have to wonder about the figures.
One possible explanation is the Mommy effect. I know that among my co-workers, many of the women who have children work a lot less hours so that they can be home more often with the children. I don’t know if that is accounted for in the figures. Another possible factor is different jobs within the general categories. For instance, in my scientific survey of healthcare providers (in other words what I’ve seen around me), there are many more male doctors and many more female nurse practitioners. If they are lumped together in the same category than there will be a big discrepancy even if the MDs are being paid the same and the NPs are being paid the same. And on another vein of the same branch of thought, a lot of fields that have been primarily dominated by men (such as doctors) are just now starting to catch up (the last teaching hospital I worked at had 8 female and 7 male residents), but still the ones with experience and thus higher pay grades are mostly the males – this, of course is excepting Obama, who apparently does not have a high enough pay grade to have his own opinions.
Just a few thoughts.
The Scrivener said
The sex differential never fails to amaze me. Since these are full-time year-round workers, I don’t think it’s a case of Mommy tracking (except in the increasingly rare cases where a woman takes several years out of the workforce when the kids are young and therefore re-enters with much less experience). Looks like educational attainment, which everyone touts as the key to success, doesn’t really help that much. Sad.
Evil HR Lady said
I hate, hate, hate it when people try to blame discrimination as the reason for pay differences between men and women. You know who works the most hours? Married men with small children. That’s right–men have a kid and they increase the hours they spend working. Women have a kid and they decrease the hours they spend working.
I’m in a female heavy profession, so multiple layers of management are all female. Without exception, all the women are the primary parent should junior get sick, have a parent teacher conference or just needs to talk. Even in situations where the husband makes substantially less money than his wife, the wife is in that primary caregiver role.
It’s all about choices and consequences. You choose who you marry and have kids with. Then the two of you choose how you are going to parent. The parent who takes more time off work to be with the kids should make less money than a co-worker who has worked out the opposite deal with his/her spouse. If I work 50 hours a week and you work 40 hours a week, even though we have the same title and same number of years of experience it only makes sense that I make more money than you.
As for the low pay for teachers–well, teaching isn’t a market economy is it? Neither is medicine, which is why it makes sense that lawyers are better paid.
Kate said
Evil HR Lady…
Yeah, if you work 50 hours a week and your co-worker works 40 hours a week and you have the same title and years of experience, you should make more money…10 hours more.
If you were hired to work 40 hours and work 50, than you’re getting overtime more than likely and substantially more pay than your co-worker who doesn’t. If you took a job that required you to work that much, my thought would be that you are the one who accepted it that way and your co-worker should not be penalized for making a better deal for herself, hour-wise.
marcia (2) said
Kate, most salaried positions don’t pay compensation for working “overtime.” Often, it’s simply an expectation of the job that you work however many hours it takes to meet (whatever) goal.
Evil HR Lady, What if the woman working 40 hours a week is more efficient or more knowledgeable than the one working 50 hours a week, and actually accomplishes as much or more than that employee? Does your rule still apply?
Marilyn said
Moral of the story? I suppose it can be summed up in the words of one of the greatest minds of our times: “You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”
I know you are quoting one of our great political minds, but it sounds like you agree with it. I would just like to say that my son is one of those who “got stuck in Iraq”. Except that he chose it after graduating from college with exceptional GPA. He chose to be an infantryman (and he DID serve a year in the most gosh-awful part of Iraq…Ramadi, in the Anbar province) though he could have gone to the language school, entered the intelligence field or gotten onto the officer track. Many of his fellow soldiers did the same. I take exception to the sentiment expressed in the above quote.
Kate said
Understood, Marcia, but I was remiss in not specifying an hourly paying job for my comment. I’m a salaried employee, but my contract states that anything over 40 results in either overtime pay or comp time accrued. I am aware that many salaried jobs do not do that – teaching, for example.
Andrew Garland said
There is no obvious difference in pay for men and women when the studies account for profession choice, education, hours worked, and other factors.
Many studies report that women are paid less than men for the “same work”. I believe the critics of those studies, because those critics find major flaws to adjust. It shows careless attention to the statistics and complicating factors in the original studies, and a willingness to accept the “right” outcome to support a political agenda.
The political statement is “You can’t let people be free to make their own arrangements, because business owners will always discriminate against women”.
Female Pay Myth at the American Conservative Union (2007).
Properly done studies show little difference in pay for men and women.
Yes, it is a conservative think tank, but maybe see what they are saying.
Study says: It’s the Patriarchy April 2007 at Darleen’s Place.
“If an employer is only concerned about the bottom line, why would s/he hire a man at all to perform a job where an equally qualified woman will do it for 69% of pay?”
I’m just posting the data, I’m not drawing the conclusions.
I do find it odd that women earn less than men in every single job category, though.
Are these data THAT suspect?
Micha Elyi said
blockquote cite=”WhiteCoat”>I do find it odd that women earn less than men in every single job category, though.
Are these data THAT suspect?
Yes, these data you’re posting are “THAT suspect.” Look again and ask yourself why men are much more often injured and killed on the job than women in every single job category you examined. Now, ask yourself if women really are doing “equal work” or if they are doing easier work.
Don’t confuse “same professions” with “same choices of name by respondents’ when asked for the name of their professions.” You don’t really suppose that a neonatal nurse and a psychiatric nurse have the “same professions,” do you? (Just try to be a man getting into the former. You’ll be shunted ever so firmly into the guy-ghetto of the latter.)
I recommend sociologist Warren Farrell’s book. In his field, you’re part of a “cadre of clipboard-laden do-gooders”, WhiteCoat.
Ivy said
Micha
Maybe men are more often injured and killed on the job for the same reason they are more often injured and killed in their automobiles. Their bravado gets them in trouble.