Radical Ideas to Improve the House of Medicine #2
Posted by WhiteCoat on January 7, 2009
Question: Who cares most about the cost of medical care?
Answer: The ones that have to pay for it.
Idea #2 for improving the House of Medicine:
Force patients to “Get some skin in the game“
Providing all patients with any available medical care all the time will result in nobody getting much of anything most of the time. Free medical care for all is a sure way to bankrupt our system and our country.
If medical care is provided at no cost to everyone, several things will happen:
1. Rationing will occur
No entity, not even our powerful government, can afford to provide costly care at no cost to everyone that asks for it. Expensive diagnostic testing and treatments will be cut back, then they will be eliminated. As more people get older, demand will increase, and rationing will become more pronounced. It is inevitable and I guarantee it will happen if we head down this road.
2. Quality will decline
Just like with the government-run systems now, there will be no incentive to improve the quality of the hospital rooms or the medical care. If it costs money, why bother paying for it? Remember, our country’s checkbook has is overdrawn to the power of 10 right now.
Goes back to the engineer’s triangle. These market forces will never change.
Patients have to become consumers. Educated consumers.
The funny thing is that patients are already educated consumers. We just have to expand that education a little. Look at a couple of examples of how things work now:
- Patients with commercial insurance will do whatever testing they or the physician believe is “necessary” … that is … until they find out that someone else won’t pay for it. If a patient can’t get a pre-authorization for an MRI, the patient won’t get the MRI done.
- If physicians write for a prescription that isn’t covered under Medicaid, we will get a call from the pharmacist asking to substitute another medication that is covered – otherwise, the prescription isn’t filled. In fact, it has been my experience that patients would rather receive a free prescription for an essentially useless medication (Amantadine) than have to pay for a more effective prescription (Tamiflu – although even the effectiveness of Tamiflu is now waning).
- Then there’s the classic example of the patient who would rather wait three hours to be seen in the ED than pay $1 for a pregnancy test. When the care doesn’t cost anything, why shouldn’t you take advantage of it? The only thing that the care “costs” you is the time you spend waiting.
- For all of you with insurance who met your deductibles last year – think of your mindset last month. Didn’t you want to get all of your medical testing and treatment done before the end of the year so you didn’t have to pay the deductible?
Happy Hospitalist is dead on with his FREE=MORE mantra.
How do we fix the problem?
Make patients pay for their medical care.
Free market, people.
The free market can’t work if we don’t know the prices of a product, though. You can’t bargain shop at a grocery store if the prices aren’t there. Before we force patients to pay for their medical care, we have to force medical providers to post the prices they charge … for everything … in plain English. Now THAT would actually be a useful “Hospital Compare” web site.
From bypass surgery down to a box of Kleenex. Level 1 through Level 5 including examples of what I get for each level charge. Anywhere you want to stick a scope – I want to know what it’s going to cost me before I see you. Yeah, consultants included. The embarrassment of charging $129 for a box of Kleenex will bring down the price immediately. If providers charge more than their posted prices, they get fined/sued for consumer fraud. For major surgeries, let patients shop around for the best price – if price is important to them. Heck, go overseas and do the medical tourism thing if you want.
We look through 6 different grocery circulars each weekend so that we can save 10 cents on a head of lettuce. We do days of research to find out which flat screen TV gives us the best picture at the lowest cost. There is a whole industry in valuing cars based upon their make, model, mileage, accessories so that buyers can comparison shop. Yet, we think nothing about paying widely disparate prices all over the country for a fairly standard hip replacement surgery.
Why? Because we have NO idea what the surgery costs and we don’t care because someone else is paying for it.
If it was coming out of my pocket and I could pay $10,000 less for the same surgery by flying to a less-populated medical center in the US, I’d be booking the next flight. Want to stop all this saber rattling going on in Boston hospitals right now? (hat tip to Kevin, MD) Start a pricing war. Post a newspaper ad showing the prices that Massachusetts General and Brigham and Women’s Hospital charge, then compare those prices to Tufts and other hospitals in the area. Sure, there will be some that will pay a premium for the “name brand,” but I bet there will be a lot more patients that would opt for “generic care” at a “generic”price.
With educated consumers making responsible decisions all over the country, some medical centers would notice that their volumes are down for certain elective surgeries. If their prices were public knowledge, the medical centers would then have to go back to the engineer’s triangle. Do they try to increase their volume by advertising a lower price, higher quality, or faster service? Those that offer lower prices will have more business. A hospital may have a “pioneer” that performs a newfangled surgery, but if the outcomes are the same as with the old fashioned surgery, the hospital is going to have to do one heck of a marketing job to get people to pay extra for it.
Forcing patients to have some skin in the game would cut back a lot on repetitive testing and futile care, as well.
Family members want futile care (i.e. “everything done”) on the 102 year old contracted great great grandfather with metastatic cancer and decubitus ulcers galore? No problem. Just provide the hospital with a retainer of $25,000 – kind of like a lawyer gets. Grandpa will get the latest and greatest ventilator with all the bells and whistles on it. “Everything” really will be done. He’ll get preoperative clearance from the best of the best. He’ll get daily surgery to debride the decubiti. He’ll get a colonoscopy to make sure that he doesn’t have a colon cancer that someone might have missed 65 years ago. Did you say he looked like he was having trouble breathing? That demands an immediate CT scan of the chest because he might have a pulmonary embolism. Actually, make that a 64 bit coronary scan to check for calcifications in his heart vessels as well. Bypass surgery could be in his future. The hospital could even do daily PSA tests to assess how quickly his cancer is spreading. You want futile care, folks? You got it. But YOU’RE the one paying for it. Heck, a hospital could probably burn through that $25,000 retainer in a day or two. But … once the retainer runs out, you have three days to find another hospital or the nonsense stops, great great grandpa gets put in hospice care, and they make him comfortable so he can die in peace.
Want an unnecessary ultrasound done every week to assess how your 10 week old fetus is coming along? You got it. That will be $500 in cash up front. You want daily ultrasound scans? Won’t make any difference in the management of your pregnancy, but you can probably get a 9AM appointment every day of the week. In fact, hospitals might just get those cards like they give out at Dunkin’ Donuts – buy 5 fetal ultrasound scans, get the 6th one free. That will be $2,500. Yes, hospitals take Visa. Oh, forgot to tell you, though – you will have to pay extra for the radiologist to read the test results.
Of course, once people start noticing that testing and care is cheaper elsewhere, prices would come down rather quickly. Hospitals can’t keep the doors open without money from patients to pay their bills.
One example – an MRI in the US costs an average of $1200. An average MRI in Japan costs $98. Most of us would probably skip an MRI of the shoulder to figure out what was causing all that pain if it cost $1,200. If you could get the MRI for $300, would you do it? What if the MRI only cost $100? How about if the MRI cost $50?
How we get consumers to have an interest in cost-cutting doesn’t really matter.
Maybe it’s forcing insurance companies to have a minimum copay of 25% for all care provided on any insurance policy.
Maybe it’s just someone taking the time to compare the costs of “comprehensive” insurance versus “major medical” insurance with people paying “out of pocket” for basic medical care and generic medications.
Maybe it’s offering consumers a “reward” of a 10% rebate cash for any money they save in obtaining less expensive medical care. You’re on dialysis? Instead of hemodialysis three times a week, do peritoneal dialysis at your home and save the government $10,000 per year. At the end of the year, the government will send you a check for $1000 in cash – no strings attached. Then, in addition to the grocery ads, patients would be searching through the health care ads for the cheapest prices.
Win-win situation.
Wouldn’t it be odd to hear a patient ask “do I really need that CT scan done?”

Braden said
Never with an Obama administration at the helm.
anonymous said
You are right on. I am preternaturally a comparison shopper, and the only area where I fall completely flat is in the medical field. I *have* asked why we are doing MRIs and CTs, refused one because I felt that the other tests would have revealed anything significant given my other risk factors (young, no history). Granted, I was more concerned about excess radiation, but that is a cost as well.
Recently my son was put on growth hormone, which is an expensive, specialty pharma drug which he will be taking for a decade or so. Our insurance covers all the brands and formulations. We knew that we wanted one that was relatively simple so that one day he will give himself the shots, and we didn’t want to have a lot of extras to mix. I think this left three formulations as options (our endo leaves the decision to the family because they are essentially equal). When I called the insurance company they COULD NOT TELL me which was the cheapest option! For me the cost was the same- we have a set copay for any specialty pharma product. So I was simply looking to go with the most cost effective choice. NOT possible.
Similarly, I have a great deal of difficulty verifying medical charges because the codes are not on my EOBs. If the charge is simply ‘medical supplies’ or ‘office visit’ how am i supposed to know what kind of visit they are billing for? I have found billing errors, reimbursement errors on occasion, but that is such a time consuming and challenging process to compare the various formulations. Medical costs and billing are far from transparent.
LH said
I agree that the medical billing system is perhaps the biggest part of the problem, but even if it did manage to all become transparent, how much do you think the cost of surgery and a hospital stay will actually come down? I can see that cost — even 25% of that cost — still being out of reach for average-income, middle class people.
Do you really want to see people skipping diagnostic tests because they can’t or don’t want to pay? That’s how they end up in the ER, when it would have been far cheaper for everyone involved if they’d just gotten the tests and dealt with it sooner.
Patients should not skip necessary diagnostic testing. The question we should be asking is whether the diagnostic tests are necessary. For example,
Do we have to get a CT scan of the abdomen every time a patient has flank pain and blood in the urine?
What is the diagnostic yield and clinical utility of all of the CBCs and serum chemistries we order in the ED?
Do CT scans of hip fractures improve the surgical outcome when compared with plain x-rays?
ADHDCPhT said
If capitalism will rule the medical system (which it should) then why can’t I sell my kidney?
I’ll give you $5 for it
Madrocketscientist said
Related
http://www.physorg.com/news150571662.html
Rogue Medic said
Does this mean that I get one of those taxi cab meters for the ambulance patients?
mercutio said
I agree, but not totally. My family has health insurance, but an mri would cost us 2,000. so when the doctor told one of my family members they needed one done, they refused, why? because it isnt necessary and we cant afford it. so yes, there ARE some patients who ask “do i really need this done?”
scalpel said
Very few people really need an MRI.
midwest woman said
Die in peace??? No we torture away, ignore the advance directives because families would rather have great grandpa suffer than deal with their own emotional loss or even worse what would they do without that social security check that comes in if the patient is homebound. When did death become a dirty word? Futility of care says it all. good post
Marilyn said
I’m not going to offer an opinion on the post, but love the picture. I took my daughters to see one of the “Body Worlds” exhibits when it came to our state; it was awesome and I highly recommend anyone to make the effort to go.
Come on …
I want to know what you think about the post.
Body Worlds was awesome, but my wife and two older kids hated it. Gave the kids nightmares and they wanted to know if that was what would happen to them when they died.
I was fit to be tied because I couldn’t take pictures and ended up sneaking a few pictures (that didn’t turn out very well) when no one was looking.
Kim said
Actually, I had an unnecessary MRI a while back and when I later learned it was unnecessary, I was *incensed*. I don’t care that I didn’t pay for it, no one should’ve paid for it. It just shouldn’t have happened. I didn’t get what I wanted out of the occasion (a referral to PT that probably would’ve cost about 1/4 as much as the MRI), either, so the whole exercise was a huge waste of my insurer’s money for no gain.
Mottsapplesauce said
Interesting post. Especially because of what I’d just been through with DH. The hospital respected our wishes not to perform any extreme measures & not one family member interfered. All the manitol, labetalol, & vasopressin he was given couldn’t reverse the damage already done to his brain, but did keep him viable to provide other organs to 4 recipients. If the choice were possible though, I would’ve given ANYTHING to take his place.
Med Student said
Cmon, we already ration healthcare in the United States.
We just ration based on who receives treatment – mostly those who can pay, not based on what treatments are supported by evidence or meet a standard of cost-effectiveness.
Kristen said
It’s great in theory. I completely agree. But the question is: How? The logistics of a change like this seem insoluble.
Moondust said
Hi Dr. WhiteCoat,
I would like your take on this article:
Hospital Scrubs Are a Germy, Deadly Mess
Bacteria on doctor uniforms can kill you.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123137245971962641.html
In your experience, how germy or dirty are those scrubs and whitecoats?
HyperAl said
Dentists gets away we it so why can’t we. Patients should pay up front, either cash or credit card. We then give them the filled out insurance form and let them collect from their own insurance providers. We should get out of the business of doing the billing for the patients. It’s their insurance, not ours.
Who started this dumb idea anyway.
Later, if the patients encounter any problem collecting because the insurance company does not think the procedure is necessary, well tough. Watch how fast patients becomes very selective about the kind of services they request. Just be prepared to answer all the questions about medical necessity and cheaper alternatives. I’ll bet you this questions will be the first thing that comes out of a patient’s/caregiver’s mouth.
In addition I agree with the idea that we should let the patients bring home their medical record and let them be responsible for it. If the insurance company wants a copy of any record then the patients can provide it. This way we don’t have to worry about privacy issues. I also want to see how fast the insurance company’s behaviour change when they are dealing directly with their customers and not us providers whom they can jerk around as much as they want then pay us a couple of penny to a dollar then laugh their tail off as we thank them for the payment. I wonder how many times they can get away with, “I’m sorry we did not receive the records, could you send them again please”, when inquiring how come the bill is not paid yet after 30 days.
WE in the medical field contributed a lot to these problems. The “freebies” we used to give away to help patients are now costing us probably 30% of our overhead, if not more. I think it’s time to re-think the so called “SOP”.
Jessica Peel said
How can a non-medical-base patient effectively tell if the tests that are ordered are necessary? I had a grand mal seizure at work, hit my head when falling and had a small scalp lac that bled like a mofo. I was “out” for about 10 minutes and woke up as the EMTs were wheeling me out of the building. I’d never had a seizure before and was really confused and out of it.
At the hospital I was quickly moved through IVs, bloodwork, fluids, head CT, chest xray (I must say I was incredibly impressed with the ED team and I was in and out in about 4 hours start to finish). I didn’t really have enough wherewithall to question what was being done to me, I mostly just did what they told me to do. I do have good insurance BTW. Anyway after labs and CT etc were negative I signed out AMA as I did not think I needed observation overnight. Plus I “had” to get home to feed my dog (I know, I know).
Followup with my PCP eventually resulted in a neurology consult, EEG, and MRI. Luckily my insurance covered it. Would I have personally paid $2k to get the MRI done? I don’t know. First seizure might mean something bad. As it was I was not able to get a neuro consult within 3 months, at any hospital in Boston, until my doc pulled rank and got me an emergency appt with someone she knew.
Sorry, long comment. I’m all for price-shopping when I know what I need, but in cases where things are way over my head, how do I figure it out? I’m youngish and healthyish so I could probably have skipped the tests and still been fine. Or I could have had to take a 3rd job to pay the $2k MRI fee. Or I could have had a brain tumor that I didn’t find out about until I had multiple seizures and finally bit the bullet to pay for an MRI.
HyperAl said
Good question but no easy answer.
The “Restrospectoscope” that lawyers and insurance companies use to make these decisions, as well as the the “Perfectometers” that patients and various regulating bodies use are not available to physicians. The only thing we have available to us are “CYA” probes, which we use extensively, some more than others, in deciding what tests to order.
But if you are patient with your symptoms and listen to your doctors (if they are up to it) you may both find, “the period of observation room”, to be quite pleasant and inexpensive.
WE used this “room” quite a bit in the “olden times” but as patients became impatient, we abandoned it.
Chelsea said
Why markets can’t control health care costs:
http://www.pnhp.org/blog/2008/09/12/market-mythology-in-health-care-why-markets-can-never-control-health-care-costs/
Torchy said
I really like this post, it’s very interesting, and also sounds very logical. In a free market, supply meets demand, and customers always look for the best bargain for their money. I’m just not used to looking at medical care that way.
What about Canada’s medical system? I’m Canadian. As far as I know, anyone in Canada can walk into a hospital and get treated – they don’t need health insurance. I don’t pay for doctor visits, either. (Unless I go to a Family Focus clinic, read: walk-in clinic. Even there, I only pay for a doctor’s sick note for work.)
Of course, we need health insurance for some things. Prescriptions could get really expensive for a person without health insurance, depending on the medication.
But I’m pretty sure that person without money would not go without necessary medical procedures. The problem is, depending on what the operation/procedure was, they may have to prove to MSI that it is actually medically necessary.
Here is a link to a Canadian government website that explains our system in long, boring detail:
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/pubs/system-regime/2005-hcs-sss/index-eng.php
I didn’t read through all of that, but the site could be helpful in understanding our system. I’m not saying the Canadian system is superior. I’m just wondering why a system like that couldn’t work for the US.
CR said
Family members want futile care (i.e. “everything done”) on the 102 year old contracted great great grandfather with metastatic cancer and decubitus ulcers galore? No problem. Just provide the hospital with a retainer of $25,000 – kind of like a lawyer gets.
I have to agree with the poster on this one. However we must do this retainer for more than just “futile cases”. It must be expanded to the population who goes to the ER for the $1 pregnancy test, which ends up costing taxpayers $600. You want that pregnancy test? Prepay $600, and you’re good to go, after an 8 hr mandatory waiting period.
You want digital disimpaction? Prepay $800, then you go to the back of the line.
You got vaginosis? Prepay $1000, and while you’re waiting here’s a bar of soap.
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Curtis said
Amen, brother… Amen.